EN060301A Work; power Interview 1 with Interviewee 1 on Positions of Power - Boss -- English Jamyandorj Byambajav Battsetseg, Translator The Oral History of Twentieth Century Mongolia 2006-03 mn XML Male 1936 Tov, Bayan sum 060301 Byambajav Well, thank you for accepting my invitation to have this interview with you. Before we begin, I would like to clarify a couple of things. First, if you wish you can keep your identity a secret, or you can not. Jamyandorj Ah well, I don’t think it’s necessary to keep it a secret. Byambajav Thank you. Second, if the information you give today is archived and need be revisited, or even quoted ten, twenty years from now by historians, journalists…whoever will you be willing to give your permission to do so. Jamyandorj I see no reason to refuse. Byambajav Thank you. Now, let’s start our interview. Can you tell us about your childhood and you life experiences? Jamyandorj Yes, well I was told I was born on the 15th day of the first month of summer in the year of the rat, 1936 as Jamiandorj, the son of Dashdorj. I was born in the land of which was then a place called Agiut of the 6th bag1 of Bayan Soum, Tuv Aimag. Just like any other Mongolian child I spent my childhood growing up near my parents, herding our stock. Then I entered the soum’s elementary school for 4 years, enrolled into an incomplete-secondary school and afterwards completed the Teacher Training College in Ulaanbaatar in 1953. Actually my career at that time was that of an elementary school teacher. I completed the Teacher Training College with an “A” mark in 1953 and since I wanted to go abroad I refused to take my diploma. My teachers kept asking why I was not taking my diploma. I wanted to go abroad to study not just for the sake of going, so I requested that they send me to a school abroad. Well, my homeroom teacher, distinguished teacher Da. Gombosuren, was very supportive of my proposal. So in August of 1955 at the age of 19 I left my home country to study at the University of Kim Ir Sen of Korea with two other boys. Oh, at that time when I was leaving my land for the first time I remember having so many strange feelings. Since there weren’t any railroads from Ulaanbaatar to Beijing or vice versa at the time I left we flew by an army airplane. Oh, that army airplane was full of Chinese army officers. Aah, the reason for this was that because the Soviet and Chinese relations was very good at that particular time the young and newly trained Chinese army officers who had just completed their training at the Soviet Union were heading back home. Because it was August when we went to Beijing it was very hot and humid (0-04-46). Aah, we were welcomed by the Mongolian Embassy in Beijing and stationed there until we left for Pkhenyan by train. Well, the first time when one comes to another’s home land, especially to a humid one, one encounters many strange events that don’t even fit into one’s mind or vision. Everything smelled of water in Korea. It smelled of white rice straw (0-05-34). (0-05-36) Everything from the bed sheets to the food we ate was unique. What more could they do? Everything required and necessary for the student exchange had been met through the mutual agreement between the two countries. So after going to language training for about a year I studied my core major for 5 years and came back home after I graduated in December, 1960. Well, actually I was supposed to graduate in June of the following year, however the deterioration in the relations between the Soviet Union and China influenced the weakening in relations between Mongolia and Korea and because things weren’t the same as they were in the past we had to hurry up and graduate six months in advance. Well, it as a time when they thought we were realists. I graduated my University with high honors and it was a time when the Personnel Department of the Center Khoroo appointed the personnel staff. I was actually under the Ministry of Education. Two out of the three of us who went to Korea to study graduated and both of us were deployed into the Ministry of International Affairs. After working there for about a year, I was laid off work due to the reduction in job positions. During that time the Ministry of International Trade was being newly established. I was very interested in their system because they were seeking individuals with language skills, (0-07-49) then until 1993 I worked under one single system. There was an International Trade various import collective that was under the jurisdiction of the Ministry (0-08-09). I was positioned as a specialist there for awhile and later worked as a specialist concentrating on Korea and Mongolian trade at the center operative of the ministry for many years. Consequently since 1966 I was appointed many a times to various western nations. Let’s see, the first place I was appointed to was Austria and then Switzerland in June, 1966 as a trade representative. Because the development of our country was well below other countries I had a very strange and uncanny feeling. After I left and went to the Soviet Union it seemed like I had just stepped onto a crazy highly developed country. Aa, and later I went to Hungary. When we passed through Hungary it was just as what we had imagined, like we had come to a capitalist country. Now Austria and Switzerland are definitely capitalist nations, from what we understood at the time capitalist nations were generally very dangerous places and I was very careful because they believe monopolists should not be tolerated and I was merely in my twenties (0-09-57). Now when I think back there really was no reason to be cautious and alert. What is a capitalist development there anyway? What is culture? How do people really live? This is all very interesting to view for the first time from the eyes of a person from a different world. It was a world where everything is free and even so the people are very calm and peaceful, with myriad opportunities in life, open, not confined to anything and not dependent on anyone. Aa, it felt obvious that Switzerland in particular is a capitalist nation because their standards of living is considered and placed very high (0-11-07). Since then, I went to Hungary, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Czech Republic, Korea and of course to which was by then the Soviet Union and the People’s Republic of China at least once a year for negotiations (0-11-33) (0-11-35). Although I have studied to become a history teacher and received a diploma from Korea I have been appointed to international economic trade and have been working in this field until I retired. Well, before I started working in this field my experience on going to the Teacher Training College has an interesting story. It was 1950, when I first came to Ulaanbaatar. Then, just like all the other young people, I came to register to the Teacher Training College wearing my green terlege2 made of drilling cloth carrying a sack with some aaruul3 and eezgii4 at the bottom of my sack. Back in those days parents didn’t help their children to get into colleges and universities, the children themselves would go and determine their situations so I came to Ulaanbaatar alone. I remember I had arrived at the Teacher Training College about a month early before school started because I had no idea when it started. When I wanted to get into the building the guard with his yellow dog stood on the doorway unwilling to let me in. Needless to say he had no other choice, the building had not been opened and it was still under construction. Even if he wanted to why would he let me in under all these circumstances? It was almost going to be half a month. This was me trying to get into the Teacher Training College after finishing 6th grade in Nalaikh, and completing 7th grade at the #3 secondary school. I had gotten my diploma from the #3 secondary school and went to the Teacher Training College because I had no place to stay and live in the city so I wanted to go to a school with student dorm rooms. Since I wasn’t allowed into the building and I couldn’t go back home, I can’t remember where I went during the days, but I would spend the days walking around the city and at nightfall I would jump over the gates of the school building and spent the nights there in the building and had passed about ten days. In those days the building and the rooms were very nice and newly constructed however, none of the rooms held anything but a metal bed; no sheets, blankets, no mattresses. The students from the country started to come one by one. Generally there were very few students who entered school at the age of eight. Because most of the student from rural areas of the country entered school when they were nine, ten or even eleven, many of them were underdeveloped (0-15-04). Before giving the entrance exam I had to register, so I went to the President’s office with the thought that that was were the registration was taking place. The President by then was a man named Zundui and he said “Oh, if you go to the building in front of this one there is a teacher called Gadinjid, she used to work as the Secretary of the Ministry of Education, she is taking registrations”. When I went to that building there she sat, a young lady who didn’t seem to be any older than I was. So, I thought we were about the same age and didn’t really think much of her, but I registered regardless. After I registered, the others came and we all sat down to take the exam. The city students and people were very fancy and elegant. Our country folks looked very boring and dull in comparison with Mongol del and Mongol boots. Then we were taking the exams the fancy city people looked very nervous, copying from one another. But we country people didn’t need to ask anyone and finished our exams successfully. (0-16-44) Then it was time to go to our dorm rooms. The dorm rooms were also very strange yet interesting then. People who were army officers during the World War II, since the war ended in 1945, then held high ranking administrative positions and executive duties. Our housing director was a small man who wore a green military jacket (китель), army pants, and leather shoes. He lined us up and gave each of us two aluminum plates, two aluminum forks, two pairs of bed sheets and led us into our rooms while still in a line and after that I spent three years living and studying in freedom. Naturally funny things happen when studying in college. A guy from Khuvsgul Aimag came to study at our school, judging from outside one might say he’s careless and sloppy. His name was Lkhamsuren and he had a very big built. We didn’t even have a radio not to mention television in any of our rooms. We only had one loud speaker within the gates, and that was how we listened to the radio. When I say listen to the radio, we had to go near the speaker which meant going outside. One day this new guy says, let’s make a radio for our home, our room and listen. I said, Ok, let’s do it, but how will be doing this? You know what we call “moloko5”, if you take its can, find a magnet in the shape of a horseshoe and wind it with a thread, burn the lid of the can and put it on the top as a юндром (0-19-11) and plug it in, it works. So we did and it worked, his’ worked and so did mine. We wrapped it around the top of our beds and would lie down and listed to the radio in our home, in our rooms on cold winter days. Then one day when I came back from class my radio, well loud speaker really, was missing and it looked like it was pulled with its assembly from its power line. You might wonder what happened next. Well, the school administration had taken it. They said “you have put a radio in your rooms with no authorization, restricting others from hearing, putting something in your rooms that does not permit opposition and destroyed the radio lines of about two hundred families in the ger district for about a month” and took us in to the teacher conference. And the school said that they were going to charge us, aa, 250 tugrugs for the damage what we have caused. At that time the best student’s salary…aa, stipends were only about 220 tugrugs. Oh, I thought I was screwed. Then, our homeroom teacher was a really good person, told the school that we did the radios for physics class (0-20-51), and urged the school to take the charges and make this be a warning for the two fellows involved. What can I say? We were free of the charges that were being made against us. Not only that, we made the radios again. We made them again. So, what was the rarest thing? Double winding threads were very rare, we couldn’t find it anywhere. Especially, resistance strings is most rare. We don’t even know. Then what did we do? We assembled broken and cut little pieces of transmission cable by putting them back together; reconnecting and made a coil. That radio line went straight over the school building (0-21-37). There stood two pillars and since the line went over these two pillars, all we did was we just got on top of the pillars and disconnect them in the summer and spring when it was nice and warm. Going on top of the two story building reconnecting and disconnecting the lines was basically how our years at the Teacher Training College passed. (0-22-06) (0-22-08) Even still I graduated with “A” mark. In fact I graduated my elementary, secondary and undergraduate schools all with an excellent mark. I received an average mark ( “C” ) once one semester. Aa, that’s actually very funny. I was stayed with one of my relatives’ family in Ulaanbaatar while I was studying at the #3 secondary school. It was about a couple of years before I got into the Teacher Training College. My home was in Nalaikh, and there were no bus, train or any sort of transportation between Nalaikh and Ulaanbaatar, only a narrow railroad wagon carrying coal. It is prohibited to carry passengers on that wagon. What I did was that I would leave my books and notebooks for Friday, Saturday and Monday classes in the school fireplace and left for Nalaikh. When I came back on Monday mornings, I would take my books and notebooks out of the fireplace and go to class. But one day when I came to pick up my things they weren’t there. There was nothing there, no sign of them anywhere. I came to find out later that when they lighted the fireplace the lit it from the front, and I had put my things pretty far in the back, and the chimney pulled the all my books and notebooks with strength and threw them out the chimney to the outside. Already my books and notebooks were torn scattered all over the ground with its edges burnt, leading me to receive such a grade that semester. There was no other way. Well, I got into the Teacher Training School and graduated after three happy and exciting years. Then I went to Korea and there were some difficulties (0-24-08). Well, their side provided for everything and the courses and training wasn’t so strenuous. After I graduated I came back home and as I said earlier, I worked at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for a year and in the Ministry of International Trade system until I retired. Within this time, I was appointed to the Mongolian Embassy to Korea three times. First I was appointed as a trade specialist, collective representative, and as a collective rep…representative; the second time as a second secretary to the Embassy; and third as a trade attaché for about a year or so. All together I have worked at the Embassy for fifteen years. If I include the years in which I studied, I have lived in Korea for twenty years. As for working in the international trade system (0-27-46) it’s clear that it was not my intended career nonetheless, I have learned so much from the people I worked with; there were many people with many different wonderful careers. International trade was very difficult and problematic during those years. The reason why is that the name brand and category of our export products’ very limited and scarce. We had many things to get from abroad. The nations we had trade relations with from a social, economic and a political point of view were mostly higher in development and growth. There were barely any that were lower in development than our country, not even countries that are as small as ours, all of the countries we had trade relations with were big in everything including population. Particularly, our country traded with the Soviet Union most of all at that point in time. Well, however starting 1958 we initiated trade negotiations with Socialist nations of East Europe. Aa, negotiating trade with socialist nations of East Europe has become relatively simple. Because there are many choices, we are able to work out a situation with one country that we were not able to with another. So in 1960 since the relations of our two (0-27-37) (0-27-37) neighbors deteriorated we will not negotiate with China. Therefore we only collaborate with Europe to bring in the products that meet our needs. Well, when buying the products a small nation’s hardships are endless. We need to buy everything a human being utilizes. Aa, even so we need to buy a limited amount. There aren’t any developed countries that have such an industry that is geared toward such minimal needs. They don’t produce goods to fit our needs. Even so, their needs are more unique than ours. The only products that were produced to meet our needs were those of the Soviet Union. They manufactured fabric (daalimba), tea, hand rolled tobacco, candles, and matches just for our country to name a few. Because those nations were the same as they were without the need of such products. Negotiating international trade always has its complications because you always have to defend your interests during the negotiations. First of all, career, we have a very few number of international trade experts and specialists. Because the Ministry of International Trade was merely established in the late 1950’s. Aa, when we want to look into the experiences of developed countries we were not able to communicate with Eastern Europe, and it was not keen to do so. And we conducted trade with socialist nations, lets say, in an unequal manner. It was a time when we were not able to sell our products to any country we liked and do foreign exchange. But we can we do? When learning from life and life experiences the international trade department has grown and expanded. That time when I started working at the Ministry of International Trade it was only a collective. It would have been considered a company in today’s day. Then soon enough it became two, three, four, five and six and later we had about ten companies and diversified our products. Well, because I worked in Korea and because I was responsible for Korean and Mongolian bilateral trade relations I spent most of my time and effort on negotiating trade with Korea. And Korea was facing hardship and destitute because of the war. During that time most of the men had been killed in war, the young men. Their economy had crumpled. There was only one two story building in Pkhenian city, all the others had been shattered into dust. Tsul (0-31-31) or gray colored brick of a building had been covered in mud. The earth soil had gone 10 cm in some areas 10cm and 20 cm below the ground. Well it becomes pretty difficult for us to trade with a country in such condition. They were very destitute. We too are low on skill and talent level. But they are really interested in our raw materials such as wool, cashmere, leather, wheat. We buy white rice, apples, and knit goods from Korea. Yes, our Korean fellows are indigent like us, and they tell of a lot of lies. They could not supply their products to Russia and they couldn’t tell Russia that, if someone tells them they say that it is bad for the reputation of the country, and blamed that person(s) or the government for opening the horrific truths about their country. But they want to assistance from other countries because their economy is so bad. But they have nothing to give them in return. So when they are not timely they start to tell stories and try to find ways to get out or lengthen the time period. (0-33-26) (0-33-28) The most difficult product to buy from them was that of apples. They have specific expiration dates and they decompose very easily. Aa, their best apples are the ones that are picked during the first snowfall. And while the apples are on their way to Mongolia, winter had already begun so the apples tend to freeze during the journey. And we use all sorts of methods and approaches to not have this happen. Sometimes we heat the train or have someone light a little fire inside to keep it warm. There was on interesting occurrence. We took a train with a cooler from Russia and loaded up the train to Mongolia. That train with a cooler did not let the load freeze or heat up. And after talking to the railway station of East Siberia, Russia we attained a train and that, that train is not the same as the regular trains that have ten, twenty, thirty and forty trains attached. There are only five trains with, with one train with equipments in the middle. We have brought the train through numerous negotiations and we told them to have the apples ready to go when we arrived. We told them what day the train was going to arrive, and they said, oh, it’s ready. So we took the train and went over, but it wasn’t there. What happened? They had been waiting at the territorial boundary lines. So we went to the territorial boundary borders; when we arrived, it wasn’t there. And it looks like we have lied to the Russians, when we have not loaded apples as we have told the Soviets we would, we have taken their train with a lie. And of course the train will cost us and we had to return the train. We returned the train empty, our people made this kind of mix up many a times. What’s done is done, but within that time Korean and Mongolian trade increased about 10 folds. Until 1990, especially during my last appointment, last appointment it increased about 3-3.5 folds. At this time I have performed the duties of that trade sector at the Embassy alone. I carried out the duties of the head director, specialist, translator, and driver all by myself. This was actually very advantageous to me. I did not have to depend on anyone; I didn’t have to worry about telling who to do what, checking on them to make sure they were doing the right thing, whether they were keeping up with their work so it was very comfortable. Well I came back from last deployment in September, 1990. September, 1990 was a time when the democratic reform movement was at its core, everyone was in over their heads and they did everything they pleased. But nothing was privatized, similar to today but everyone mulishly acted without authority. When I came back after graduation I worked at the Ministry of International Trade as the head of the Licensing group. I had three to four people working under me. Aa, that group was a group that executed such activities that we have never had before and it was a group with a lot of authority. The sort of activities they conducted was of authorizing agricultural units and private companies to conduct trade. You, for example, can conduct international trade; negotiate for other countries, and import and export products. This gives you a license for an immovable property with the minister’s signature. At that point in time we were full of activity because everyone wanted to conduct foreign trade. Some people didn’t have anything, no office, no phone, and no products to sell and yet they wanted to negotiate trade, there were no specialists in the field. Then we verify their information. We check their office; they have no office, nothing to show (0-39-18). (0-39-19) When people don’t receive the license, they bribe higher authorities and the higher authorities push and press us to give those people their authorizations. The higher authorities would ask, why won’t you give it to him/her? And we try to explain to them the reasons behind every case, and the authorities would say, oh you can take care of that. Well the next thing the individual who is about to start their trade business does after getting their license is that there is a contract that should be made with foreign countries. It’s basically an agreement. There are exporting contracts and importing contracts. That gives them the right to enter through state territorial borders, and there is a small amount of fee once they reach the territorial borders as well, and they have their complications there because they’re not professionals in this field or in any. When viewing from the eyes of an international trade specialist those people would do unimaginable things; they don’t realize that they aren’t doing anything to benefit the well-being of their country. They don’t know the price of products they are going to buy; they will go only by the mouths of others, if the individual selling the product states their price, they will take it without a thought. When we tell them what to look out for and what and where their faults are they say that we are trying to control and command them and go running to their acquaintances in higher authorities. Their acquaintances come to us and give us orders. If that doesn’t work they pressure us. Besides that the people who are conducting the trade will not just sit there, they will give bribes. It seems like that was the time when corruption and bribery started to take place. For example, when someone wants a sizeable contract, they would say that they will give us or that person in charge a colored television, just to authorize a contract. They would say, I will give you your winter provisions. Some of our specialists bring out problem that they have brought it to Gandan5. Later, they have started to hide this from me by not talking about such things in my presence, leaving the room or calling them over to talk about such matters, of course I have not seen it with my own eyes, I don’t know if they have taken the bribes or not this is only what my people say. Some of them would come in very angry, and some are just very strange people. They would come in saying I will not do this job. This was a time when we didn’t know how to take bribes. Everyone was that honest, you see. But after awhile things got worse. People would go our specialists’ homes day and night distracting them from their peaceful states. Aa, that, aa, creates a very serious situation, who know, even a crime could be committed. They could pressure us, our workers by kidnap their children and family members. People who only seek personal gains are very dangerous. Not only that we are pressured by many from various directions; from higher authorities with old fashioned behaviors. With all these occurrences, I practically felt that it was not a job fit for my kind. Plus it seemed like some ministers of that time were not very fond me when I was honest and by the book. So I decided to resign. I handed over my job and went to the Import and Export center, where I used to work in the past as the head of Korean and Mongolian trade, as a referent in charge of states. In addition, we had established diplomatic ties with South Korea to conduct trade with South Korean companies not directly but work as their organizer (0-44-33) (0-44-33) that generates their policies. The ministers agreed with contentment. Maybe they thought that they were finally getting rid of me. So I transferred there, it’s a wonderful job, and old job that you know very well with state acquaintances on either sides because I know the Koreans very well and they know us. I have worked there until 1990, oh not until 1990, but until 1993. Well the policy that I was advocating was that, well, to continue to trade with North Korea according to the trade agreement that we had in the past, distinguish the products by the capability to continue or discontinue and increase the amount of exports and imports, if not, keep it at the same level without deflation. Generate a policy that does not allow trade products to change their brand and type and actually give the collectives duties saying, now work. Now, the policies that we maintained with South Korea were to bring in as much imports as possible and as freely as possible. The reason for this was that in the first half of the 1990s Mongolia was full of bad quality Chinese products, only the worst products were imported to Mongolia. People would buy it very cheap in China and would sell it at a ridiculously high price in Mongolia. Under these circumstances, Korean products surpass these products in quality. Because of this reason, we need to slowly push bad quality Chinese products with Korean. The policy I advocated was to bring in Korean products, and later if we are capable we might be able to bring in Japanese products from other sides, and that is the duty we gave to companies and manufacturers. The companies will be ok in the long run, as long as it benefits them, we won’t hold back the direction of the policy capacity. But I believe that this policy holds true and is being executive event to this day. Today Chinese products have not shown an increase in amount and Korean products have been steadily in an increase. Korean products are very good in quality compared to Chinese products. In fact they are very high in level. Within this time I went to South Korea a few times on commission. Actually it was more than a few times. I visited their factories and industries in about twenty cities. I visited their main industries such as the vessel industry. It was impossible to cover it all in the work space, no, even on foot. It was that huge, we only went by car. The ship was hundreds of meters in length and the workers were everywhere, going from one place to the other all traveling in small vehicles designed for industrial work. The workers and managers conversed through telecommunication or else it was impossible to reach one another in such a distance. It was almost like a mountain or a hill top. This ship and vessel industry that I visited had devoted its entire self to their country (0-48-39). There lies an island close to this industry called Kojido island. The reason why this island is so popular is that it was a place where the North Korean soldiers held prisoners of war during the war of the 1950, 1953. I could have visited that island…but they didn’t let us in. They said that there was no one there. Maybe there are, maybe there aren’t, who knows; of course they will not show it to us (0-49-22). (0-49-22) The next large industry that I visited was that of Samsung electronics of South Korea. The Samsung industry is the world’s number one in many aspects of its production and is located in Su-Un City in South Korea (0-53-49). Some of their activities were not visible for the people’s viewing. From observation some of the things were almost impossible to see, unless seen with a magnifying glass, and it was all automatic. The half transmitter room was viewed from behind many sealed glass windows, and inside the people operated wearing protective suits as if going into surgery. You can’t see anything really, you can’t see what they are doing, I don’t even know if they can see what they are doing. If you set the machine right, the half transmitter starts to work. Let’s see, I think the next big factory was the Huandai automobile industry located in Inchong, South Korea. An automobile factory is also very interesting. In reality one big flat metal comes in through the conveyer, when the parts first arrive. After one press it forms the bottom part of the automobile, and another press makes the top and then there are automatic welding from all sides (0-51-12), and they also have a robot. Many interesting conversations arise while delving into the Korean economy and meeting with the specialists. One time I traveled with about thirty people that included aimag and city mayors and executive directors. And once we were there we sat in lectures on market economy that continued for about a month. I don’t know about other people, but in my opinion it wasn’t that special. Because firstly, I already had the fundamental knowledge of what economic international relations were like in capitalist countries; and secondly, the lectures didn’t really go into specifics or hands-on activities. For example, how do they make the settlements through the bank? And they didn’t mention the conditions to supply goods and products. It was all very general, and that was probably more appropriate, providing the general education first. In the midst of all this the lecturer always put the blame on socialism. He would say, oh, socialism has hindered your development, because socialism has been following you all this time you have not been able to develop and grow. So I went to talk to him one day. Our instructor/lecturer was the head of the Institute. He was the head of the Institute that conducted this training. He was educated in Germany and did his doctorate study on economics also in Germany. He has worked as the economic advisor of the Korean President and his name was Guan (0-53-49). So I had a conversation with him. “You keep attacking and criticizing socialism. I’m sure there were many things to criticize in the old days (0-54-01) but there are at least a few good qualities that socialism posses. For example, Mongolia has not been wronged or has become destitute by going by socialist regulations. Compared to 1921 we have not deteriorated. Today we have educated our citizens and our population is 100% literate and educated. We didn’t have any industries, today we have a quite a number of industries and are producing our provisions at home, domestically (0-54-48). (0-54-50) We have industries that develop agricultural and animal products for example we are producing 80 percent of our wool and leather. I think this is a very important indicator. We also have a construction industry. We almost not importing energy from outside resources. We have improved our agriculture and have been satisfying the needs of our red wheat. This is, I don’t know how it is in other countries, but in Mongolia, socialism has given all it can give. With this, you keep saying such things. Ok, maybe it is like that. I guess socialism has slowed the development in some countries” was what I told him. He is still quiet; and I said “well, is there ‘anything’ positive that you can tell me?” He finally spoke “oh, of course I have”, I asked what were they, and he said “the education and health care in a socialist system is most impressive". That in fact is really true. He is an experienced professional, of course he knew this. What he was talking about was first, he didn’t know our country very well and second, since we are heading in the direction of the market, he left out market economy and in order to emphasize that he pressed down on socialism. And then you listen carefully, things like this happens all the time. Oh, well, and then you come back. When I thought back what happened was that the two important things that socialism brought us were destroyed by us. What happened was in education, the teachers have no income, and in health care, doctors have no income. Because of that the quality in education drops, there is no quality health care and the powerful specialists and professionals are gone (0-57-05). And one by one everyone start their own private businesses developing private hospitals and private schools. And since we have destroyed the two most valuable things the others just fly away because everything that we were building and creating we destroyed. This is the situation that we have put ourselves into today. But you cannot look at everything from a negative perspective. Compared to previous years, we are actually doing and manufacturing things domestically. Its has become very pleasant and comfortable to conduct trade. In international trade seeking our people (0-57-56) the opportunity for international economic relations, trade and economic relations, and market research has expanded because people enroll and join in on the available opportunities independently. People will not organize and conduct detrimental activities as if they have only one eye. Even the private businesses and organizations; if they don’t think about their country, they will at least think of themselves, and their well-being their family’s well-being first, second, because our bilateral relations with capitalist nations have enhanced and also because information technology has improved greatly we are able to research and learn from the experiences of foreign markets. It has come to a point where one can just see how much copper is being priced, how much gold, and oil is being sold for and what the dollar currency is at the moment straight from the comforts of one’s own home. We didn’t have that opportunity when we were young. When we want to buy and read books on related careers they said first, you are trying to profit a capitalist country and second, of course they wouldn’t give us anything with the changing ruble of the capitalists at the time (0-59-16). (0-59-16) even though they had prints, they would only give them by foreign exchange/currency. Oh, currency was such a big problem. Almost the through government resolution will we, our Ministry of Foreign Trade experts, be able to order and read a few books and magazines. Especially the price; the economical unit was the brain of the Ministry of Foreign Trade. They were the ones who studied and researched the market and gave advice. They would give us advice on where and when the products would be most profitable, or where it would not, and if we export this product to this country it would flow and where it would not. (1-00-07)