EN060601 Democratic Revolution Democratic Revolution Choijamts Byambajav The Oral History of Twentieth Century Mongolia 2006-06-25 mn XML Male 060601 Choijamts I graduated from eh... the State Economic Institute of Moscow in 1960 in the Soviet Union and married a Soviet citizen Galina, a Buriyat woman. Since then 46 years have passed. Meanwhile, we had 4 children. Our children live separately. We are now a family with average livelihood, this is how we live. My wife finished a trade school…of Leningrad. She is an accountant by profession. Since my marriage I worked in places such as Nalaikh capital mine, State committee on material and technical supply and after 30 years of service I retired on old age pension. As of now since the children live separately, two of us live at our home. Now, we have grand and great grand children…5 of them. Some of my grandchildren have already graduated from schools. So I expect them to find an employment according their ability in some of state organizations. As for the two of us we lived a life an ordinary people just like the other Mongolians, just like other people, we have never been very wealthy, we lived an average life, at an average post, received average salaries like others and lived in such way. The salaries of two of us at that time would be something around 750,000 tugrugs of today, an amount equal to 750, so some 750 tugrugs. That was an amount fully sufficient to cloth our children, buy food and drink, buy for children school uniforms and pay for the flat. Now I don’t know. Assuming that you now receive 750,000 tugrugs, I can’t say that an amount of 750,000 would be a salary that is sufficient enough to pay all those expenses. So we have lived together for 42, 46 years. We receive our pension, it is for us the time enjoy a happy life. This time had arrived and I retired on pension in 1988. My wife received her old age pension in 1990. So this is how two of us now live. Of my children one is studying now in Moscow, in engineering school. Of the rest, eh… one daughter of mine graduated from the Institute Architecture in Moscow. The other graduated from Moscow Institute of Archives. One child finished secondary school in Moscow, finished Institute here, worked for two, three years in Japan and came back. So except one, all of them now live in Ulaanbaatar. Eh this is as far as my family life is concerned. My marrying this citizen of the Soviet Union Galina Petrovna, I think, was a great fortune of mine. It is thanks to my wife’s endevour that I now enjoy this standard of living. My wife is truly a very good person. My wife took care of every aspects of my life, my wife run the family life, my wife carried the burden and brought up the children. It was…like this. Thanks to me my children reached adulthood, received knowledge and education which is no inferior than others. Well, since I was retired on pension in 1988, well, fine…many events had happened. The most prominent was the emergence this democratic youth, many young democrats came forward. What was the primary goal of those, democracy was just a name, what the democracy was, what they wanted to democratize was not clear at that time. Well, then there was a hunger strike, demonstrations, different sit-ins thus it started. So it was as for the very first time I know, in almost 80 years Mongolian people…in other words Ulaanbaatar residents and myself have seen such a uncalled situation. They say it was hard for the Mongolian people during the patriotic war. But Mongolian people have never experienced such difficult time as this so-called revolution the democ…democratic youth made in 1989, 90 brought to us. During the patriotic war meat, bread and everything else were available. Shops and trades were not stripped clean. Everything that should be there were delivered and available. However, at the time a coupon system was put in place and through the coupon system shops and trading organizations took measures and controlled delivery of goods to the people. Then since 1990, this event took place and what was the outcome of… the activities of democratic youth, shops, trades and services in Ulaanbaatar had disappeared. In shops there was nothing except salt…macaroni, Mongolian macaroni. There was no meat. Well, then other… goods what could be there, all completely disappeared. This situation continued for two…1993…1994…and until almost 95. Aa Mongolian industry as such in other words light and food industries on the whole were destroyed. What light and food industries do is that it is an organisation which provided money to Mongolia, Mongolian people with food and drink and other…satisfied daily needs in goods, it was such an industry. It was a big branch of industry which provided job to over 30 thousand workers. Aa this industry, on the whole, ceased its activity in 19…93, 94. This was what happened. If…this democratic eh eh democrats have not emerged, and if things went as in former days for about 10 years, Mongolia, Ulaanbaatar would have changed considerably compared to the present, Mongolia would have been industrialised and reached a different level of development, this is understandable to everyone and everybody were aware of this problem. The other problem is how it happened so easily as soon as these democratic youth, dem.. Democrats came out, it has something to do with Batmounkh who was then the General Secretary of the Mongolian People’s Revolutionary Party, Prime Minster, President Batmounkh… Myself as well other people talk about it. They say that due to the display of wisdom of mind change was made not letting it (the movement) spread too much and without shedding blood. Eh.. the main demand they were putting forward at that time was … let’s change the fa.. (fate) of the country. Let’s put an end to the domination of one party was the demand. Mongolian state, Mongolian People’s Revolutionary Party, at that time, were doing everything to develop Mongolia, to develop, to protect Mongolia’s security, for the wellbeing and good life of our people, it was such a party. I think after the events on the squire, when they were sitting on the squire of Mongolia (a reference to Suchbaatar squire) Batmounkh made a pitiable and sloppy move. Why, because…in order to reform the party young people may be promoted, and yes, you have to develop democracy it could have been inevitable. But in short Batmounkh surrendered to the youth and what the youth did after that was neutralisation of law enforcement, control and legal agencies and laws…started cancelling all laws and regulations that were in force at the time. So since then these youth appropriated for themselves the material resources and funds and everything of value of the country … this is what had happened. Due to this now eh.. eh… about 98, 99 percent of the Mongolian people are facing difficulties. May be one percent, not even one percent, around one or two hundred people enjoy a luxurious life. And who are the ones living among them, they are Ochirbat, Gonchigdorj, and then that Elbegdorj, as well as that very Delgermaa and in all there are about one or two hundred of them. They apparently live happily and bath in luxury. I assume that they today have at least tow apartments and a nice summer house so 3 luxurious houses in all, one car in minimum and as many as 3. At the time they were graduating from Institutes those who were lived during that period on their own salaries had no possibilities to buy such an amount of immoveable. The present young people, for instance, Gonchigdorj is a shareholder of such big industrial enterprises as three big complexes of fruit and vegetable processing enterprise in Darkhan as well as meat processing plant of Darkhan, Ulaanbaatar confectionary and pastry factory. (0-12-16) And they bought and gave to some of their brothers and relatives many other objects. Then where did they get that money? It is a very interesting thing. At that time of democratic revolution before democrats came to power our country had in its bank a reserve of hundred million tugrugs, hundred million in foreign currencies. That reserve was lost in gambling game (betting) with foreign banks with the permission of Byambasuren, Ganbold and Ochirbat. The state bank had a reserve of 4.5 tons of gold. That was for some reason shipped abroad. It was done also by the permission of Byambasuren, Ganbold and Ochirbat and others. Why did that 4.5 tons of gold was shipped abroad and disappeared. The reason for that has not been clear until now… it disappeared under some incomprehensible circumstances. So what I think is that from these gambling and shipment of 4.5 tons of gold I would assume that those people did get some kind of benefit and income. Even today, livelihood of Mongolian people is not improving. If you look, well, what happened, then you will see that …various people have become members of the government and have been elected to the State Great Hural. Most of them are as we say …. (0-14-19 …so in this way the democrats, did this kind of work, thus resources and material wealth that had been created by the Mongolian people for 70, 80 years have been wasted and squandered, appropriated by sneaky elements, some of them even stole thus the wealth accumulated by Mongolian people were wasted. Eh… during that period many factories were commissioned such as food factories, textile, wool, hide and skin processing factories. Since 1960’s and in sixties most of these factories were built primarily with the assistance of the Soviet Union, Cze... Czechoslovak Republic, Hungary and Bulgaria most of them were brand new enterprises.(0-15-50) These industrial enterprises now had high capacity, were equipped with the most efficient and new machines as well as had modern technologies. When the democrats took the power they stated that these enterprises were obsolete, with backward machines and out of date technologies, destroyed them all and all the equipment of the factories under the pretext of being obsolete exported to Russia…and China as scrap metals. The payment for the metal scrap export, that money did not bring any benefit the Mongolian people. The officials and workers who were employed in those factories had not benefited from it. I think the income from it was appropriated by the democrats for themselves this is what I think. In reality, there were such occurrences. The other issue is how the privatization was implemented. The privatization as an issue was also raised by that very Byambasuren, Ganbold, former President Ochirbat, and at their initiative. That was the red and blue coupons. The value of a coupon was 450 tugrugs. Then those on pension received the coupons free of charge. The rest were sold each for 450 tugrugs. One billion tugrugs were the income of the sale if you calculate it according to the number of our population by 450 tugrugs about one billion tugrugs should have been accumulated. Where is that money? Again it was the democrats, I suppose…. Who pocketed that money. If we had another 10 years Mongolia, Mongolian people, Ulaanbaatar city and living standard of the Mongolian people would have been very different, more prosperous, optimistic and upbeat. Well, as for the democrats they have destroyed this opportunity for future development. When the democrats first came out they organised very impressive demonstrations on the central squire and around the government house. They were the group of people who shouted and yelled curses against Mongolian People’s Revolutionary Party…Mongol…government of Mongolian… People’s Republic. (0-18-48) And if you ask who were the leaders among them, then now this Gonchigdorj, Zorig, well, then Ganbold, Elbegdorj, now this Bat-Uul and the likes. A lot of young people who followed them not quite knowing or understanding what was happening, this was the beginning. So they declared a hunger strike on the central squire and held negotiations with the government. And through negotiations and as a result of those negotiations now the Mongolian people’s, Mongolian government stepped down. Their policy and the demand were to abolish the Mongolian People’s Revolutionary Party. However, Mongolian People’s Revolutionary Party did not dissolve. But the Mongolian People’s Revolutionary Party has been reformed. Reforms were implemented since then. Until today that policy of reforms is continuously being implemented. At the time in 89, 90 all the events occurred and decisions taken by the government were leaked out on the same day or almost at the same hour ????(0-20-14). Well, now who was doing this, high officials of the government of that time, Deputy chairman of the Council of Ministers Suren, Secretary of the party Namsrai, ah… Deputy chairman of the Council of Ministers Zardykhan were those who leaked and informed outsiders according to my thinking. Eh.. in fact they were the persons who told outsiders and spread information on all the issues raised in the government. Well, I’ll stop here. Byambajav As a person who from secondary school, until graduation from the University and after that for 20, 30 years worked in rank and files of the socialist sys…system, what was your impression or reaction to hear something like this about democracy? What did people of that period and of your age exactly talk could you tell me? Choijamts We who lived and worked during the socialism, all those of that period devoted their labour, their life, in fact everything to creative work, to prosperity of our country and to the wellbeing of our people. For example, construction of apartment houses, in general, construction of modern buildings in Ulaanbaatar began from 19…1961. (0-22-17) From 61 the foundations of the apartment buildings of first 40 thousand (sq. ms), the second 40 thousand, buildings of the 50 thousands were dug by the workers of state organisations and residents of Ulaanbaatar, so the foundations were ready and the buildings were constructed. These were huge undertakings. For example, there are the apartment houses of second forty thousand, houses of 50 thousand, now that building on the western side of …Lenin museum. The buildings to the south from there, in digging earth for foundation and removing for construction of …flour mill of Ulaanbaatar, skin and hide processing factories, cattle hide processing factory, kid and goat as well as sheep skin processing factories we all participated in the subbotniks (voluntary work). This is a demonstration of, in general,… the determination of people of that period to do something worthwhile, for the wellbeing and good of our people, so this…this could serve as the proof of that endeavour. Those of us who were working and living in socialist period never expected that democracy and democrats who came out by the end of 89, in 90 and ensuing events would turn in such or the other way. We never thought this would happen. When this thing started unfolding we sensed that it was not going to be something worthwhile. The preposition proved to be right. So prediction that it is not going to be a worthwhile was proved and it is continuing up to now. About 30, 40 percent of the Mongolians still live in poverty. Prices are going up. Prices of oil and gasoline are going up on daily basis, by day, hour and minutes. It was not so in our time. The state had a pricing policy. Through that policy prices of internally manufactured or imported goods were ???? (0-25-12) strictly controlled. Prices of food items were strictly controlled. Since there was a strict price policy in place we had no such problems. (0-25-24) Now the state and government lost control, set the price policy free. The currency policy is set free. Under these circumstances the prices soared wild. Now at the market one kg meat costs 3500, milk and yogurt cost 6, 7 hundred, 700 tugrugs. This was not the case in our time. While the conditions are such, they are talking of providing employment to the people??? (0-25-57) building factories. But no factory has been built. Since there is no work place, no factories and no progress how could people get employment. How the people will improve their livelihood. In order to improve life what should done in the first place, work place and factories should be created. Only by building factories you can create work place. When you have a job, you receive salary and improve your livelihood. You may speak about people’s life. It will not give any result. Now they simply talk about providing jobs, improving living standard, developing industry. Instead of this we should talk about how to use fully capacities of existing industries, to restore factories that were there before and to implement these measures. In order to do that we have to renovate the equipments of the old factories, of course, we can not renovate them immediately. There should be an annual state plan to restore such and such factories, restore these factories, buy such and such equipments and on that basis restore those factories and provide work places. Only this way the peoples’ life will be improved, but not by building small and medium enterprises and creating work places this is just an empty talk. There is no need to deceive people in this manner. My impression is something this kind. (0-27-41) Byambajav During that period there was dreadful thing called the coupon system. Choijamts Yes. Byambajav Don’t you think that prerequisites for introducing that (system) was nurtured during socialist period, it had already started developing that time? Disappear… Choijamts No. This problem cropped up suddenly. Those democratic youth came out suddenly. They came out suddenly and made all trades and shops and all the capital accumulated by the people vanish without trace. So when there was no leaders in the country, no money or financial resources how can there be goods available in shop. There is no way. People buy what they need and it is over. Since the state had no money to import again from abroad those items how could trades and shop would have goods(for sale). Because of this in order deliver (to the people) the small reserve of meat, meat and food items the coupon system had been introduced. Then the coupon system did not stay long. There are many intelligent young people, a lot of them. These nice youth understood that thing are getting bad and started peddler trading in order to feed, to feed the people, they imported from the south various goods and fabrics, from north, from Soviet Union various goods and this way they made the ends meet. It was not at all these young people or those democratic youth who came out and created this. They did nothing. They are the ones who eat and drink. They have been consumers. Those who did the real things were ordinary youth, intelligent youth, they were called as the peddler traders. They did the whole thing. I think we should be ever grateful to them. Well, this was the situation of that period. As for the present situation, now it is a time when people demonstrate at every occasion, if they don’t like something they demonstrate,(0-30-25) go on hunger strike. Then now at the end they even did not desist from throwing stones at government palace, broke things. At the end they even went as far as to blame the state when it had no involvement at all for their own arbitrary and wrong doings (өөрснөө дураараа дургиж, дунд чөмгөөрөө жиргэж) when they on their own volition entered into agreement with good-for-nothing persons and deposited their money for saving and when afterwards they went into bankruptcy, they are now saying it happened, after all, because of the fault of the government. If the government will not redress our loss and satisfy our complaints we’ll…demonstrate, go on hunger strike. It received later these forms( of struggle). Specially now this Batzandan, Magnai, now this Ganbaatar and the likes (chose these forms). Why, they can they choose some other forms of struggle. I can see some truth in what they are saying. There are lies and deceits present in it. Ah aa…they say things that must not be used or even should not be mentioned. I think, therefore, now these youth should change the form of this struggle of theirs, decide the problems through negotiations. Really this hunger (strike) is something that is unpleasant even to look from aside. If one mingle with them and look carefully one will see that very people who live in heating system canalization wells, drunkards, thieves walking among them, walking among them. Stirring up trouble and instigating people in this manner is very troublesome to the ordinary people. This kind of thing gives unpleasant impression to foreigners, and looks really bad. Since it is so, these youth should now somewhat change the form of their struggle and wage their struggle in a more cultured way, and continue it through negotiations then probably its outcome (урьд нь ч гэсэн probably “ur dun ni’- result, outcome) may be slightly different. As well it will be more clean and cultured this is what I think. As for me personally I do not support their struggle. (0-33-04) I explained the reasons for it before. If they don’t change and continue their struggle in this way they will not achieve anything at all. This could be settled only through bilateral or trilateral negotiations, by way of joint meetings and consultations but not shattering things, shouting and yelling abuses, stirring up troubles and instigating people to these kind of actions, this form of struggle will achieve nothing, it can’t be successful is what I think. Byambajav At the beginning of the democracy the Jasrai Government adopted the resolution no. 20. What was your reaction (How did you receive it)? Choijamts The resolution no. 20 was not adopted by Jasrai Government (онц газрын үед ар- meaning is not clear). Resolution number twenty was adopted during the Government of Byambasuren. Eh.. Resolution number twenty was adopted during the Government of Byambasuren and what happened was our national currency, the buying power of tugrug was dropped and exchange rate of foreign, convertible currencies rose, and then they themselves increased their personal savings. This was it. In other words it was a resolution that caused the fall of buying power of the national currency. Well, who did take advantage of this, that very Byambasuren who was now the big Prime Minister, his deputies and the sneaky and greedy elements of that period. At that time they divided their own savings into two, three pieces and deposited huge sums in savings’ accounts. Dividing that sum in two, three and deposited where the interest rates were higher. So the buying power of the tugrugs started to drop since… then, now one dollar is equal to 1170, 1180 we are buying a dollar for this amount. This is where we are now. Neither Mongolia has benefited from the so called resolution no. 20, nor the Mongolian people has received from this resolution no. 20 anything, I mean ordinary people. Ah, only they themselves did get rich that was such a resolution. (0-35-57) Byambajav With the beginning of democracy, they say, the Soviet troops were expelled. What was the reason for that. How did you (and others like you) receive that? Choijamts Ah… At that time Soviet military units were stationed in Bulgan, Dornogovi, Dornod, Dornogivi. Soviet military construction units were also in Ulaanbatar. They were making contributions to our construction work. They had built great many houses. It was those military construction units that had built the present big apartment houses in Ulaanbaatar and gave them to us. In other words it was they who built these houses and thus they came into being. In general, construction boom started from 1954 with building of apartment houses. At first the Chinese started construction of apartments. Well, then since 1960 relations between Mongolia and China deteriorated. So since then China withdrew its construction workers. And some (of resident Chinese) were expelled by us forcefully to China. And afterwards three big construction consortiums the first, second and third worked (in Mongolia). Of these three consortium…the second construction consortium was building apartment houses. So these were the buildings they constructed. And on …these constructions civilian workers were also employed. As for the professional builders they were from the military construction units, builders from there. That was it. Well, youth instigated by the democrats, the ignorant young people expelled them from nineteen hundred 93 (not jaran or 60 but yren or 90), and 4. For instance in Erdenet or Choibalsan a Mongolian youth or two, three of them would approach two Russians walking in the street and ask when are you leaving I’ll take over your apartment. You should leave, go away from here quickly. I heard this happening in Choir as well. I was once in Erdenet on an assignment. At that time Mongolians were working at Erdenet, at the same time Soviet builders were also working over there. So one morning I was going to that…the party committee of Erdenet where I had a work to do. I had something to do there. (0-38-55) Then two or three young people approached Russian builders going to their work and said, hey Ivan, when are you leaving? You should go away immediately. I am going to occupy the apartment you are living. Such a thing was happening not only in Erdenet, in Bulgan it also happened. In Bulgan there was a big military unit, except the construction unit Erdenet, there was a big unit. Such units were in Choibalsan, in Dorndod as well. To the south in Choir, there were military units. Soviet military units were stationed in Ulaanbaatar. So what they had to do. It must have been difficult since the people displayed such an attitude and when they were driving them out. They may well have been beaten, or threatened how can one stand such a condition, how any one would want to stay, while being ridiculed in bad language and tormented, threatened to be beaten. Well, there, apparently, was an agreement between the two governments. However, wily nilly there were no other option except to leave. The conditions were impossible. So they went back. Then all the apartments, the apartments they resided, other auxiliary buildings and the rest were left behind. Some of them were received by us…some underhanded persons took possession of two, three apartments and whole entrance of an apartment house…now who is that?...the who built that high rise here…Enkhbold. Z. Enkhbold. He took an entire entrance of an apartment house, where soviet military officers were living. Well, this has gone too far. How could this be possible? So what remained were looted by thieves, all the doors, windows and wooden floors were stripped off and the rest were destroyed. Aa.. some of the houses were occupied by squatters without any permission this was what happened (0-41-27) A lot of noise was raised around moving them out. Some of them were driven out, some squatters remained in those buildings. The buildings around the military unit in Nalaikh was abolished in this manner. The buildings of the military unit in Choir were completely destroyed into ruins. There was a big military division in Bulgan. The buildings and apartment houses of that division, auxiliary buildings, barracks of soldiers, actually everything over were all completely destroyed. There was an housing complex and many auxiliary buildings to the north of military airport in Nalaikh. They were also left in complete ruins. This was what happened. Now… so far the biggest achievement of the democrats was this. They have not done anything for the Mongolian people. They have managed to abolish what has been created…what has been in existence but they themselves had done nothing at all. Well, there was a young man called Zorig among them. If he was alive, if he did not loose his life at the hand of others, he would have done a lot, a lot of right things I think. He was a graduate of Soviet University. And finished a Russian school. He knew well…Russian life, language and culture. If he continued his activities as the Prime Minister, if he was not killed and became the Prime Minister he could have done a lot of things… Byambajav Why do you think so? Choijamts The reason I am thinking that way is … at that time various noise and different talk were circling around in the government palace. Rivalry was rampant. The question who should become the Prime Minister was apparently brought up and debated. So Sanjaasurengiin Zorig was the person who had the highest chance. If he was not killed during that night, his path to become Prime Minister the next day was fully cleared. Aa.. that man was not become the (Prime) Minister. He was killed by someone just hours before that happened. (0-44-29) That was what happened. If that man, Sanjaasurengiin Zorig were to become the Prime Minister he had a profound knowledge about the relationship with Russian people, that superficial?? brotherly relations. Therefore, he did not share now that superficial view held by the youth of that period and democrats. If he were appointed it would have been a severe blow to the so called democrats of that period. It is because of that he lost his life in the hands of others I think so. Byambajav Not the democrats whom you call by bad names but the revolutionary party was in power. Choijamts Yes. Byambajav Can the revolutionary party lead the country in a manner and at that high degree you expect from it? Choijamts Mongolian People’s Revolutionary Party… during its time made useful things for the Mongolian people. It has been doing everything. It led and organized everything. It is such a party. It fought for independence of Mongolia, for the wellbeing and prosperity of the Mongolian people and it has made significant contribution to this cause. It is said that at present Mongolian people’s revolutionary party is in power. But Mongolian people’s revolutionary party is not alone… now in the power. On the basis of the consultations of many parties... Byambajav Revolutionary party is the majority. Choijamts Revolutionary party is the majority. But it is not the majority that reaches the level envisaged in the provisions of the Constitution. Majority, when a party has a majority of 40, 41 seats then it is the majority and Mongolian people’s revolutionary party would have the chance to take the power on its own. Since this condition is not met, now there is a coalition government (0-46-59) Byambajav Then from 2000 to 2004 revolutionary alone … Choijamts Yes, it did. That period, when revolutionary party was the party in power, was again a period of recovery. During this recovery period growth rate was 10 percent but what did they do after taking power. At that time growth rate of our industry, its progress reached 10 percent. That now declined during Elbegdorj’s government, the growth rate become only 6 percent. So what can you say. It is an illustration of that. Byambajav Are they doing it intentionally or are there some other blunders? Choijamts Blunders are there. There are blunders and mistakes even among some politicians and leaders of the Mongolian people’s revolutionary party... there are mistakes among them. Democratic party is also not free of these mistakes. Well, then all those being appointed and elected to state agencies and the great people’s hural are all representatives of political parties and except that they are all owners of big firms, companies or something else. So they are all big owners. Since such people are in the power they will never think of the people. They will defend their own int… interests, the interests of their firms, their own selfish interests, and will work only to this end. Therefore, laws and rules elaborated by them will be the in defense of their interests and they adopt only such laws. In this connection what we should do, how should we choose now future members of the great hural, members of the government then we should found and elect those who think and work for the motherland, for our people, for the country from among the people. If we do not elect these powerful and privileged, owners of big enterprises, owners of large and big companies to the great hural, and keep them out of the government then people will also change. (0-49-41) Now look, this creature Gundalai is now selflessly and persistently pursuing his own obvious interests. That creature Jargalsaikhan is pursuing his own selfish Jarga…interests insistently. Well then high employers of Ministry of Tourism, then that of Ministry of Environment are working relentlessly for their own selfish interests. They will adopt laws this end in mind. They will never work for the good of our people, for increasing their wages. They will only work for their interests. Even now it is so, we can see that they are pursuing only their own interests. We can see and feel it. Therefore, in choosing future members of Mongolian government and members of the great hural we should elect them from among the people, including representatives of herders, representatives of workers, representatives of educational, scientific organizations, representatives of health workers, representatives of educational services, agriculture and land farmers. We had such a representation during the old system. But now we don’t have this representation. All were chosen from traders, from those old greedy elements that cheated us and they were put in power. They will never do anything for the people. They will only work for their own selfish interests. This is the purpose they put before them. Byambajav Generally speaking democratic party and revolutionary party, these two parties are the main two forces that will be in power of Mongolian state, how do perceive the future of Mongolia from this perspective? Choijamts I don’t believe that the democratic party has the opportunity to lead the country into the future. But the Mongolian people’s revolutionary party, the party has such a chance. (0-52-00) However, there are different people in the Mongolian people’s revolutionary party. They should be cleansed. (it should get rid of them) So that is what I told you. We should elect a genuine government and great hural, in constituting them we should elect them from genuine people, from among the genuine people. Then now those elected from the people will… work for the Mongolian People. But the owners of large enterprises, those rich people, now these rich ??? (0-52-41) who numbers about two hundred in our country, about two hundred men, they are now deputies of the great hural, Government Ministers of some ministries. And those who are working in administration and agencies number about two hundred. They have become the persons who administer all, and take everything themselves. Only when they are no longer there, a distribution system and different wage system will be introduced. Look at the laws adopted at present. For instance, the tax law, law on housing, law on immovable and laws on different taxes. What does it mean after all that they are all contrary to the people. Why don’t they increase the salaries, wages of the Mongolian people, and reduce charges of apartment houses. The soaring prices and others are all contrary to the interests of people. Why does not the state and the Mongolian government take measures to curb and control the prices of most important goods. It can be done. Because it is stated in the Constitution that the state shall (participate) regulate the economy. On that basis the government, government can control the prices of certain goods. The government can take in its hands the currency policy. Now what they are doing. A few speculative traders of foreign currencies are increasing or decreasing the exchange rate at their own will, I met a person(trader). He said he makes in a day a profit of at least 100,000 tugrugs. He is earning 100,000 tugrugs just carrying certain amount of currency in his pocket, and by selling or buying it. Then calculate it, how much it will be in a month. It is a shocking 3 million tugrugs. That is the money in his pocket. Therefore, what …the state should do is to take control over pricing policy, take it into its hands. Ceiling should be established on prices of the most important goods. It should take in hands the currency policy. Strict rules to streamline banking and financial organizations should be implemented. Only by doing this the country will develop not by continuing the present disorderly situation, this chaotic situation of market will eventually draw most the people into it, and actually they are in there. Without enforcing some order we can’t progress further. For example, they may be buying a box of cigarette for 100 tugrugs or less from abroad. Aa.. in domestic market the most inferior (box of) cigarette is sold for three hundred…and forty tugrugs. So they are selling at two folds of the original price. That is why even if the government of Mongolia increases the salaries of the people, increase the pension of the old peoPle, the prices go up what is then the benefit of it? There is no benefit whatsoever. No benefit for the state. Even if the salaries and old age pensions are raised no one benefits from it. This is the situation. Therefore, what should be done is the following, first of all set limit on prices of most important good and exercise effective control over it. Then improve the performance of the banking and financial institutions, all money transfers, commercial and trading activities should be channeled through banking and financial institutes. Cash trading should be curtailed. Without taking such measures under the present circumstances banking and financial institutions can not be improved, salaries and wages as well pension issue can not be solved positively. Byambajav Thank you very much.