EN061104A Kazakhs Interview on the Kazakhs in Nailakh Satibaldi Byambajav The Oral History of Twentieth Century Mongolia 2006-11-15 en XML Male 1947 Kazakh Educated Retired, accountant Bayanolgy aimag, Tolbo sum Nalaikh, 4-th khoroo, Tuulyn 18-4 None One of 6 children Father of Five 061104 Byambajav Well I thank you for accepting my invitation and giving me this interview. Before starting the interview there are to issues to ask from you and clarify. Satibaldi Yes. Byambajav Firstly, if you wish you may keep your name concealed. Аh if you wish you may say it without concealing, what do you think? Satibaldi I’ll proceed by simply saying my name. There is nothing to hide about it. Byambajav OK, OK. Well secondly, all information and facts contained in your interview will be used by us in future in books and other publications as reference material, most probably they will be used in TV and radio broadcasts as reference. So would you give us all the rights to use it that way? Satibaldi I’ll give. Byambajav Well let’s now start the interview. Now first of all would you introduce yourself and tell me about your childhood, will you start the interview from your childhood memories? Satibaldi OK. I am called Satibaldi. I am from the Butarga clan, there is a small clan named Butarga in Jinteki tribe. I am a man belonging to Idel clan of the Butarga. (0-01-30) my father’s name is Tushigjan. Аh six of us were born from my mother and father. Now three of the six are alive three of the of six had died. Well they say that I was born in the mid of March 1947. There is no official document of that period such as birth certificate. Because in those days, in forties there was no official registration of birth and they say that it was introduced since 1951 only. Therefore, we can’t say that I was born on that date of such a month. I was told that I was born in spring of the year of pig. Accordingly it is written in all my documents that I was born on March 15, 1947. Well you said to speak about my childhood years and wanted to hear that, I can say that both my parents were illiterate cattle herders. Well we were not servants of the rich. My family had over 100 sheep and goat, ah 5-6 cows, 1-2 horses. We had no camels. Such was our family. I was sent to school for the first time in 54. My elder sister who was studying in the first grade left the school and I started to study directly from the second grade. In other words it means that I was sent (to school) in place of my elder sister. So I finished the fourth grade in Tolbo soum of Bayan Ulgii aimag. In Tolbo soum, there is a book “The battle of Tolbo Lake” you know, I grew up playing on that battle field. Then I entered the fifth grade in that year when I was in the fifth grade my father died so I left the school. After being a drop out of the school and after an interval of 3 years I had to begin again to attend the school. The reason for that was though my father died there was an elder sister, there were several younger siblings, four of them. The younger brother next to me finished 4th grade and after that he wanted to continue his studies. But there was no higher grade classes after four in our soum, there was no classes even up to the 7th grade. (0-04-45) But there was the need to continue our studies. I think it is proper to mention what I had been doing for the three years in between, after all it is a history of my life. Well it was the socialist period and me as a orphan was given the job of a scribe in milk and butter factory (Though it was called Zavod in Russian meaning a factory it was in fact a small shop to separate cream from the milk and make salted butter) of the Tolbo soum. It means actually I was only 13 years old. The reason why I had become the scribe was that the superintendent (of the factory) of that time was illiterate in Cyrillic, he wrote old Mongolian, also spoke Mongolian language. But all the documents were written in Mongolian language, the requirement was to speak in Mongolian as well, for he was in the army and later was working as the superintendent of the milk and butter factory. So I wrote for him. In other words I wrote down what he wrote or said in Cyrillic letters by hand, there was no typewriter. Ah that man dictated me the figures how much cream and butter were produced in Mongolian and I would write them in Kazakh. In that manner we worked together for two years and on the third year I was admitted in the fifth grade. I attended the fifth grade when I was basically 14, almost 15 years old. That man told me why should you attend the school I spoke to the chairman of the food factory. Soon a course for the superintendents for milk and butter factories would be opened why don’t you attend that. I said no, no I would not attend it, I would by all means continue my studies in the ten year school and I got my three months salary for the summer, went to Bayan Ulgii to attend the fifth grade of the school. So entered the fifth grade and studied there for 5 years actually for 6 years and finished the 10th grade. I got an assignment to study the profession of engineer and economist in Rumania but when I came back to home with that news my elder brother and mother reproved me saying that I wanted to go further than Russia. So I decided to change that profession (assignment) after I would pass the exams in Ulaanbaatar. That was the agreement I made with my elder brother and mother and arrived in Ulaanbaatar. In those days we had pass the exams not in our aimag at the 10 year school but had to pass the entrance examinations in Ulaanbaatar. I arrived in Ulaanbaatar on 5 July and finished the examinations after the 10 August. (0-08-02) I passed the examinations successfully and got the assignment to study in Rumania. So when the decision was taken I told that I was a half orphan and that my mother and relatives would not allow me to go to Rumania. That is why I would like to go for study in Russia I addressed with my request to the personnel section but he said he can’t decide this matter and said the Ministry of People’s Education would know it. There was a man called Sodov. I came to that man explained my situation he said you had passed the exams now you should go to the office responsible for the distribution of (students for) assignment headed by the Minister called Enebish. I came to that distribution office and was told that if I would study as a exploitation engineer of mines in the name of the Ministry of fuel and energy then I may receive an assignment to go to Russia for study. So I went there to study however since I was going not with my own assignment but in place of others I was told to go through the preparatory course. Then I finished the preparatory course of the Irkutsk University and after that studied in the second course of the Mining engineer faculty of the Polytechnic institute and on my own request after seeing and consulting my colleagues I changed my profession. And I continued my studies after my transfer to the Institute of state economy which I graduated in 1975 as a mining engineer and economist and came back. After graduation the Ministry itself assigned us to various jobs. I wanted to come to Nalaikh but it did not let me come. I began to work in coal incorporation of Ulaanbaatar. After four years of work, there was an opening for an economist in Nalaikh mining. At that time Ochirbat was the Minister of our Ministry. Minister Ochirbat had organised the meeting of his (Ministry’s) collegiums in Nalaikh and my friends in Nalaikh said that they had no economist and requested that he send me to Nalaikh and the Minster promised to do so. I had a three room apartment in Ulaanbaatar I left that apartment and on the next day received the order and came to Nalaikh. I worked as an economist in Nalaikh mine from the 1st of October 79 and since 80 worked as engineer in charge of norm (quota) setting, from 1980 as underground mining engineer (0-10-52). After that from 83 to 1992 over 9 years served as the chairman of the united committee of trade unions. While I was working in 90 there was a big accident in the mine. Some seven men were trapped underground at the time of accident until the last victim was recovered I had to enter the underground mine tunnel every day. When the accident happened the Director of the mine Jadamba and myself happened to be on the spot. Three, four men were killed until their there bodies were recovered we had basically to remain underground for two, three days, meals were brought to us from our homes, it was a hard time. It was indeed a very hard time. After that accident I began to suffer from high blood pressure. I was told that there are certain degree of dust sediments in my lung and from 91 I had been under medical supervision. Since 1992 due to occupational ailment I had to move to an easier job which was lighter by 40 percent than the previous one, I gave up my job in trade union and had become the chief economist of the mine. I had been serving as the chief economist until the mine was privatised in 95. In other words the mine was bought by a private company. A company called “Ikh Tengis” (Great Ocean) It was a time when underground mining had become extremely difficult, the underground working conditions were very hard, the difficulties we had were growing by every day and the volume of extracted coal was decreasing. And there was an impending need to cut down the number of miners because the mine was unable to support so many miners. We received 20 million tugrugs as subsidy 20 million of those days was huge sum. The government used to give us 20 million as subsidy it was no longer available. Therefore the mine was not able to sustain its independence and it had decreased its capacities and by 95 it was reduced basically into 4 small companies, the mine was divided into 4 small companies… each with 40-50 miners and we wanted to continue underground mining. We made the calculation that the mines would work using a single conveyor belt system (not konvert as in the text), one remaining section with 500 miners was left on the place the previous capital mine. The rest of the workers left where they wanted to go. There was no work place and there was no way to keep or restrain them (at the mine). (0-13-53) That was the situation. So we were faced with a situation where there was no other option that to stop the mining and in desperation we raised the issue with the Ministry. The Ministry was in no position to take any measure and said there was no other way out than to privatise the mine. At that time Jigjid guai was the Minister. So the mine was transferred to the Ikh Tengis private company, according to the official documents constituted at that time it was bought for 260 million tugrugs. I still remember that. Ah all the documents were transmitted to the Ministry no one really cared about it. We were told that now the mine was bought and the mine was transferred to private business, the Director was one Erdenebileg. After the transfer a private company Nalaikh holdings Ltd. Affiliated with Ikh Tengis was created. It was in January 95 that the mine was transferred to that company, it was as of the 1st of January, three months after acquiring the mine it was made a daughter company of the Ikh Tengis Ltd. I have to mention here something, I can’t go without mentioning about it. The reason is that the mine was sold at that time according to the initial price tag, let me bring an example or two. All equipments of service facilities and the assets of the mine were of extremely high value at that time. They were sold at the original (initial) price. All the equipment, spare parts were sold at that price. Everything was sold at the initially indicated price tag at the time when we had already entered market relations, basically after 5 years since the introduction of market relations that was the whole issue. I don’t remember now how much was the (actual) price. So we had to give away everything for 260 million only, well from that 260 million some 40 million was to be deducted for social insurance. Ah tax of about 40 or 30 million tugrug was not paid by the mine it was not paid because the mine was going bankrupt. That was accounted as the part of that 260 million payment. So that Director basically bought for 260 million the whole mine, after buying it in January 95, and in about 6 months he was able to sell generally all the assets of the mine, except the service facilities. Let me bring an example or two. (0-16-31) A UAZ 69, 69 car (Russian jeep) in good condition and running, those UAZ-69 cars which were bought initially for 18 thousand tugrugs (in old price before the devaluation). And the KRAZ lorries, the mine had 2 CRAZ heavy duty trucks and it had I think 4 more MAZ trucks, in general the depot of the mine had over ten different cars of different types. The cost of a CRAZ was 172 thousand. Now those people bought for that price and understandably sold it. A CRAZ was sold for from 2 to 3 million tugrug. Ah I don’t know for how much they sold the UAZ-69 jeeps. At least it must have been sold for 1 million. So imagine, bought for 18 thousand and sold for a million. What a regretable thing it was. What could the miners do…they sold those assets and disappeared. Miners were left without masters, with no one to take care of them. The miners received on subsidy from 2-4 tons of coal annually. It was gone and the mine was bankrupted and it left without any owner. Ah during that accident of 1990 over 200 miners were enlisted partly incapacitated. It continued like this and a few more people were added into that list. Some left for Baga Nuur (coal mine), at that time the migration to Kazakhstan suddenly started. Agreement was concluded to recruit workers for work in Kazakhstan. From our Nalaikh more than 400 families had left, it is according to the figures calculated later, we did not know about it at the beginning. We thought that about 100 families left but when later made a count it turned out that 400 families had left between 92 and 95. In such a manner the mine had vanished, it was left without owner, that was the situation and it was a difficult period. As for the occupational hazards and accident, during the socialist period about 40 people got minor injuries one or two people lost their lives but today in those small mines in a year 30 to 40 people loose their lives. Now most of the miners basically left their jobs, being left without any one to look after them, it would not be an exaggeration to say that the old miners are dying out. They were such a wonderful young people, from the miners of those days now only 40, 50 odds are still alive. Now this the situation, the old timers…now of the people of my generation most of them had gone. I hear that at least one or two of my good old friends pass away. (0-19-44) If you ask why they are dying it is because of occupational ailment. Most of them met their death because of the accident of that year. Well if I would say a few words about my life then that is the following. My wife is also from my native land, from the clan of Zumaraevo. Her is father is Uyamak son of Umkhanbek. We have 5 children, 3 sons and 2 daughters. Ah my youngest daughter 6 years ago while she was still studying in the institute died because of maternity mortality, the remaining 4 are alive. My life is normal, I live in this way. This is what I would say about my life. Well, secondly, as for the your question concerning the Kazakh nation, when did they arrive in Nalaikh I would like to say a few words. From official documents one can see that since 1931 one or two Kazakhs came to work in Nalaikh mine. When they arrived in 1931 they did not come on recruitment or accordingly in an organised manner, they came as individuals when they heard that a (coal) mine was opened in Nalaikh. Livelihood there was good, one earns good money, you can improve your livelihood and they came here in pursuit of good life and money. According to the official papers they arrived in 1931. Ah there are people who arrived even in 26. They came in Nalaikh and worked in lime factory, there were a few unmarried young people demobilised from the army who were poor and found it difficult to make living in the countryside and had to make living and came looking after job. It was the group of 31. Well I have been living here for over 20 years therefore I am working on a book dealing with the life of Kazakh nationals living in Nalaikh on their origins (family tree) and history. It is now on the final stage. I finished the part on origins of those who were working here and working on the part of history. There are many distinguished and heroic (a reference to the Heroes of Labour) people of ours among them. There were many who worked far better than those heroes and merited workers. (0-23-19) I want to include those in the book, if possible, with their portraits. That is it. In general there was no Kazakh school as today therefore our Kazakhs here had become Mongols. They don’t know the Kazakh grammar, they only have the spoken language. They had become such a people. Therefore starting with those they lived here from 31 until today Kazakhs lived here over 70 years. In over 70 years 3, 3, in fact, 4 generations (of Kazakhs) have been living here. Yes. After the 3rd generation, now the 4th generation is emerging. Since they have been living for three generations, it is natural that they forgot their native language. Because most of them even at their homes among themselves stopped speaking in Kazakh, they speak in Mongolian, because they forgot the Kazakh language. Ah at schools the children speak Mongolian, in kindergarten also. That is why they first learn to speak in Mongolian, therefore … in general it, in a sense, it may be the order of Kazakhs living here, people proposed to me (to do it). Of course there are things that I did on my own initiative as well as others made proposals to me on this account. Accordingly I am writing the history of Kazakhs the least for 7 generations the farthest up to over 20 generations. Ah in my book I described the genealogy of some people up to the 23rd generation. Ah there are people who knows only up to the 4th generation. They say don’t know anything I know my father but don’t know my grandfather, I do meet such people. For those I describe the 4 generation. Ah of single young man who arrived here in 20’s and in 31 some started marrying Mongols. And their children stopped calling themselves as Kazakhs. I ask them shall I write about him as a Kazakh, have you already become a Borjigin (ancestral clan of Chinggis Khagan). Then I found out that some of them had indeed become Borjigin, some had become Uriankhai, some Buriat. Some of them came to me and asked to describe their linage. I tell them about their previous 7 generations. Well now you are a person of such lineage and such clan. Now I tell them your mother is a Mongol but you are a man of Kazakh nationality. (0-26-26) Likewise in order these people know, in my book I write who is a Kazakh person, since when we were known as Kazakhs… say about the origins of Kazakhs. I am writing about genesis of Kazakhs. Well now the genesis of Kazakhs come solely from the Hun(Hsiung-nu) (not “Guna” as in the text). It was divided into 7 groups. For example: if you ask when the Kazakhs emerged as separate entity it is during the 15th generation up from now, say from the time of Hun I write down to Tenderik, Saakh, Antim, Bishzagat to the present. At around over tenth generation, from seventh to fifth century foundation of the birth(of Kazakh nation) was laid down, in other words in the Fifth century, since 552 it emerged (as separate entity) the evolution towards birth(of the nation) had started from that starting point until the 11th and 12th century, in 12th century we enter the Chinggis Khagan period. At that time we (Kazakhs)were living here (at the territory of present Mongolia). So we lived alongside and as well fought each other. We don’t need to cover up that we battled against one another. Ah in the beginning Kazakhs were part of the Zuchi Ulus (the country of Zuchi the eldest son of Chinggis Khagan) or the Altan ord (The Golden Horde). Then later in 15th century the actual Kazakh Ulus was created. If you ask where is the Kazakh territory, it was situated to this side from the Black sea, virtually what is now the territory of present Republic of Kazakhstan. Ah then Shinjian was not included in Kazakhstan. What I am saying is that truly the native land of Kazakh people is the Kazakhstan. I wrote about it in my book. We are such a people. Ah we all originated from the Hun, both the Mongols and Kazakhs. Byambajav What is Guna? Satibaldi Oh Guna, initially many nations originated from the Guna (Hun or Hun-nu in Mongolian). Guna (Hun) state had been established. From that Hun many other nations had emerged. The Hun was divided into 7 parts. Three of them by receiving a religion, the Buddhist religion, had become distinct from the rest, four of them received Muslim religion. Well because of it Kazakh and Mongols had become different, otherwise we all descend from the Hun I wrote about it. (0-29-02) I am using a present historical reference to write my book. There is nothing which I myself is inventing. I intend to publish this book soon. People lately are including their children, and their grandchildren both sons and daughters in their lineage register, during the last a few years. For the last two generations children were registered only under their fathers name in lineage book, female child was also included in it. But later many proposed me to write about their family. Probably I will not be able to write about the families. That is it. Therefore, I am writing this book so that the people would at least know the history of their lineage. I would not be able to finish the book this year but by the next year hope to able to give it for printing. This is it. In brief I can say this on this account. Byambajav You mentioned before ah about the battle of Tolbo Nuur (lake). Satibaldi Ааn hn. Byambajav Do you have any remembrances about that historic battle... Satibaldi We heard about it but have not been witnesses to that battle. Ah people speak about the battle of Tolbo nuur, there is a monument to Khasbaatar at the bank of Tolbo nuur. The monuments to Khasbaatar and Baikalov is right on the bank of the Tolbo nuur. Ah to this side of it there is a place called Buraat. That Buraat is what was the Saruul Gun (Khuree)- a religious centre, I know that the centre was located there. Now only some what you would call the ruins of the centre can be found there at present. Ah the Khasbaatar monument in in Tolbo, it is situated exactly in the centre of Tolbo soum at about 10 km, at a place called Khokhtovoo, it is a place called Khokhtovoo. The monument of Khasbaatar and Baikalov is there. We don’t know anything except the monument and the book on it. Ah I told you before about the milk processing facility of Tolbo…the butter factory. It is over there that there are exactly 360 foxholes or trenches, what you call the okop (foxhole)….(0-31-46) Byambajav And trenches ... Satibaldi Yes. There are the trenches. The foxholes of that period were dug without stone walls, it was individual foxholes, they are still there. I grew up playing around there. On this account I….ah many different things are written in that book on this (event), there are quite a few books. There are at least 2, 3 books dealing with that subject, about that battle. Well… Byambajav Don’t you know what kind of battle was fought there? Satibaldi Yes. All I know is what I learned reading the book entitled the “The battle of Tolbo Nuur”. What… I only knew by the book otherwise I know nothing more than that. That White guards, their officers and soldiers arrived and garrisoned in that Saruul Gun monastery, may be it was called monastery they stayed there. That monastery was in a place called Buraat in Tolbo. The ruins of it is still there. They were surrounded there for more than 40 days, we know the location where they were encircled. And some of them could escape from the encirclement. From that encirclement that very Dalilkhaan and Torbatkhaan escaped. Khasbaatar was also in the encirclement he died there. He tried escape during a night but was caught and it was said that he died there. Dalikhaabn survived but Torbatkhaan died and it was what happened. (Translator’s note: What happened was during the battle a joint Mongol-Russian unit under the command of Baikalov and Khasbaatar was surrounded by the white guards, during a night raid Khasbaatar with a few men tried to break away but was apparently was caught and killed, the only survivor Dalilkhaan, a Kazakh man informed about the plight of the surrounded unit to the main forces (Russians) and its men came to drive away the White guards and free those encircled) I don’t any more detail about it(the battle)…I only read about it from the book, I have not seen it myself. So I don’t know. There is no need for me to retell you what was written in that book. Since it is there…it was something of that sort. Byambajav When you were first admitted to school in 1954, for example what kind of clothes did you wear, how about the text books and other learning materials, what was your daily rations? Can you tell me about it…. Satibaldi In 54 I went to school in the centre of Tolbo soum. It was a one storey building with 8 classrooms. I had to travel from a distance of 11 km in the morning, my father sent me early in the morning on horse back (to the school). After travelling 11 km I attended my classes, I think I left around 6 in the morning. (0-34-42) So after covering 11 km I reached my school, what we had, actually nothing… we had no school bags. As for the bag my mother made for me a bag from daalimba(cotton cloth). We had no ink, in small glass tube of penicillin injection we poured some ink into and carried it with us. We received real ink later around 57, 58. Until then we had that ink we poured in the small bottle of penicillin carried it but it often froze. So we had to melt it by blowing on it to write. As for the copybooks we had them. Before us when my elder brothers were attending school they say that they had no copybooks. It was said that they usually wrote on paper wrappings of the yellow brick tea. I had not seen that personally. We had many copybooks and as well pencils but no real ink. Ah there was the copying pencil with blue graphite lead, we used to break that pencil took out the graphite dissolved it in water and poured the liquids into the penicillin glass tube…there was a paramedic station in the soum. Apparently it had plenty of those small bottles. We carried our ink in those penicillin bottles. At the school it was very cold in winter. We sat in our outer gear, the ink was frozen. So we had inhale on it…thus we continued until the 4th grade, by 58 in 4th grade things were getting better. During that time classrooms were heated quite well. There was a stove called Dunna??. About that time the school got a boarding house(for students). I think that apparently it was not possible for me to live in the boarding house. So we had a boarding house when I finished the 4th grade. That was how I attended the school. Afterwards when it became impossible to walk to the school from a distance of 10 km, I had to live with a family to attend the school, the family lived not less than 5 km away from the school. It was 5 km from that place called Khokhtov to the soum centre and we had to walk the distance. In the morning we had to go the school on foot, left the home when it was still dark. In winter classes started at 8 so several children had walk from our homes at 6 a.m. There were 5-6 children of 3-4 families in all we were almost 10 children. That was how we attended the school. (0-37-15) In those days all the text books came from Kazakhstan. No Mongolian was taught nor any books in Mongolian was available. We studied by the text books from Kazakhstan till we finished the 4th grade. In 4th grade our teachers taught us a subject called Mongolian language, I think that started from the 3rd grade. Mongolian language was taught from the 3rd grade. From the 5th grade we started to study Mongolian and Russian simultaneously. So after studying both of these languages, basically, when we finished the 10th grade our knowledge of Mongolian was simply negligible, in general we left the school with a few words of spoken language. Thus when we came here after 10 year school I could not speak in Mongolian. And I had to leave to North(meaning the Soviet Union), we who graduated from institutes in North could not speak Mongolian at all. Only after the graduation of the institute I did learn Mongolian. That was the situation. The schools of those days were like that. When I was attending the 1st grade if I saw the Director of the school I would stand still and salute him, and stand there till he says “dismiss”. It was also like that whenever a teacher was walking nearby, we salute and stood still till he said “dismiss”. It was the rule, it was it. Before that, before us apparently there were many other funny practices, but I don’t know well about it. Byambajav For example? Satibaldi For example, it was said that they had to wear deels (Mongolian national robe), so they wore deels. Then they were writing in soot.(for there was no pencil or ink) And then there were those thick yellow paper wrappings of the brick tea they wrote on the that paper by soot. Ah later things improved and they were given squires of carton papers. They wrote on them by soot cleaned them by the sleeves of their deel and again wrote the same paper this was what I heard. Yes. Yes, my elder brothers told me that was how they learned to write. Apparently I entered the school when things had become much more advanced and studied there. There were two 10 year schools in Bayan Ulgii aimag, one Kazakh 10 year school, the other a Mongolian 10 year school. (0-39-45) There were two schools. That year 120 children finished the school and over 30 of them got assignment to study further, the rest could not get the assignment. Over 10 of them had become school teachers some probably went to the army. Ah over 30 top children got assignments, I was included among them, came to Ulaanbaatar passed the entrance exams and left to continue my studies (abroad). Yes. This is the story. This is my memories of those days, what else could I tell you, yeah. Byambajav You said that you were working at milk processing facility. Satibaldi Yes. Byambajav How many tögrögs did you receive at that time. Did your salary benefit your livelihood and how far? Can you recall your memories on this account. Satibaldi I started working on 25 May of 60. After my father died I was the bread earner of the family… and I was given that job. At that time it was thanks to the Master (of the milk processing facility) who himself was an uneducated man and he chose me (to work for him). So I was given the job of the scribe and stoker(fireman). It was a job for only 3 months in those days. The facility did not run for the whole year. It worked from the 1 of May till the 1 of September. The facility was closed by the 25 of August. I worked till then, until the 25th of August. I found out that I worked for full 3 months and I was receiving a monthly salary of 100 tögrög, one hundred tögrög. In those by the salary of 100 tögrög one could buy a bag of 70 kg flour and 3 brick teas for 100 tögrög. That is why it must have benefited my family, it did benefit. Because in a month we consume one bag of flour and one brick tea, so two brick were in surplus. That was why it did influence on our livelihood. I worked for 3 years well really 2 years but for 6 months. I worked in 60 and for the second time in 61. Then since I was in 7th grade till 9th grade I was in charge of milk processing section. I was receiving milk for processing from the milk processing facility which was supplied on voluntary basis(by the inhabitants) in the countryside. Every households depending on the number of milk cows had certain quota of milk to supply.(0-42-14) A mobile processing section travelled around and received that milk. Ah when I was a student of 7, 8, 9th grade I took charge of that section and travelled around 4 brigades. At one brigade we would spend from 15 to 20 days and received the milk, for that job I was paid an appropriate amount of monthly salary. That money was used to buy my training aids. These ares the recollections I have. Yes. It did benefit, it benefited us. One hundred tögrög was a lot of money. Ah I heard, in fact, my elder brothers say that in olden days a sheep cost only 2 tögrög and 50 mungu. Ah when I was attending the school and receiving the salary a horse cost only 60 tögrög, 60 tögrög for a horse. So I was earning enough money to buy a horse in a month, in two months I made money to buy 2-3 horse. (laughed) It was so interesting, we bought the horse from the drivers of livestock. (In those days live cattle was exported to Russia, it was driven to the boarder) Livestock drivers sold flat at the rate of 60 tögrög (a horse), the highest price was probably 70 tögrög. I remember that my brothers were happy saying that thanks to taking a job I was able to prepare the winter provision. (laughed) Because when you had bought two horses it was enough for the winter provision. They were happy for that. Therefore it was as if there was nothing more valuable than the 100 tögrög in those days. Of course race horses were more expensive. There was a different price for them. Horse for provisions, in a sense, were valued at 60 tögrög. Byambajav In general which of the five kind of animals are more numerous in Bayan Ölgii than others? Satibaldi Bog or sheep and goats are more plenty in numbers, we had more of these “small cattle” bog or sheep and goats. We have fewer camels. As for the horses since people love them we raised them a lot. However, horses are less in numbers than the previous two kinds. We had a lot of yaks. In particular our soum and in Altai soum have many yaks. Later in Altai soum number of yaks grew rapidly. People say that they have more yaks than sheep and goats. It may be so, generally the soum is rich in livestock. But we have a few camels. My family had no camel. Ah at the time I was finishing the 10th grade my family had over 70 heads of animals.(0-44-53) It was sufficient for us at that time. My elder brother gave me one thousand tögrög in two years. I used the money for travel expenses, and came back from abroad once in two years. In 6 years of study abroad I came back to my native land only twice. It was my life, life is such a kind of thing. Well, this is actually my memories of that period. Byambajav When you were attending the 10 year school life in your place generally was getting better and better. In general how wide-spread was the movement to migrate Nalaikh among the population? Satibaldi Movement to migrate was quite wide-spread there among our people. In other soums it was less intensive. The reason for that is our soum is the transit route between Ulgii and Khovd. The transit movement went through that place called Buraat and along road vehicles frequently travelled to Ulannbaatar and to Ulgii. That road went right through our soum. Ah for this very reason when I made a study of those who arrived in Nalaikh there were very many people from our soum, most of those people included in my book hail from Tolbo and Deluun soums. Ah, for example, merited miners and hero of labours were born from Tolbo. There is the hero of labour Jiruneskeek. All the Kazakh heros and merited workers are from Tolb, Deluun and Bulgan soums. If you see the heroes and merited workers they are from these soums. If you ask why it was so those who wanted to come to Nalaikh were mostly poor people. In other words there were a group of people who had no livestock. I know a little about them some of them had no winter provisions and the provisions for such families were collected by the local people, I remember that vividly. There were such families. Because they had may be a horse to ride but no small cattle, that family. The idea about (social) benefits was unheard of. So how one should live. Then they go around the families (asking for charity) and they usually gave a hind leg of sheep or something else. There were many who lived on that (charity).(0-47-29) Probably there were many just like us. We were like that. My mother would always say oh that one was coming we have to give them some and would give. So life was very hard. Such people were mostly men. And they talked about jobs to do. There are some work in Kholboo Nuur and went over there. Kholboo was apparently was the present Tsagaan Nuur transit base(distribution centre). They also went to Ulgii. Because there was that “moyaka”, that is “moyaka” in Russian and Mongolian, in Kazakh it was called “moi” or “moiko”, that was a wool washing factory, wool was washed at two places, they went there but not every one was able to find a work place there. And those who came from here (Nalaikh) told them lets go to Nalaikh there was job and good life. And secondly, once you were there (as miner) one is not recruited in the military service. It was a compulsory obligation, every man had to serve in the army. It was the rule. Well, later the term of service had become three years. It was rather late since late 50’s it had become three years. Before that it was 5 years. Ah our aimag was established in 40 and since then Kazakhs were recruited in military service before that they were not recruited in the army. Secondly, it was said that there was a distrust or suspicion, apparently it was thought that these (Kazakhs) could do anything or something else.